Curse

Gun Pierson · Dec 09, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

sins are useless in pve? they are possibly the most overpowered pve profession next to the imbagon.

Except that few can play them well and few groups take sins in. Before SF discovery, sins were having a hard time getting into groups. They were like mesmers, powerful if you know how to play them, but not popular or wanted.

Toxic OnyX · Dec 09, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golgotha

It is so broken that a single core skill can combat it? Yeah, I see who the "retard" here is. Don't get lost on your way back under the bridge. I could design a prophecy only area that completely shuts down SF with little to no added penalty to balanced builds.. Why can't Anet?

yes I agree I see who the retard is as you fail to understand the basic premise of the argument I put forward ( as an aside anyone with an IQ above 50 could design an area to combat SF) but that isn't the premise of the argument, it is that SF as a skill can and does walk through 90% of the areas in the game (with the use of DP & GoS), including the areas that give the highest rewards and at such a ridiculous pace that it is game breaking... Understand now?

Therefore the counter to this is to nerf it in a way that still allows it's use but not as a solofarming godmode, the easiest way by far to do this is the "deal no damage" option, you will still have a broken skillbar but one that serves the prupose of a party (via tank and spank ideal) and given that the AI of this game doesn't include hate/enmity, this means that any accomplished perma will know how to stack and hug mobs against walls and thus protect the party.

Hope I didn't lose you along the way with the use of logic as it seems to be quite lacking in most of these posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Except that few can play them well and few groups take sins in. Before SF discovery, sins were having a hard time getting into groups. They were like mesmers, powerful if you know how to play them, but not popular or wanted.

/QFT

Life Bringing · Dec 09, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Except that few can play them well and few groups take sins in. Before SF discovery, sins were having a hard time getting into groups. They were like mesmers, powerful if you know how to play them, but not popular or wanted.

1. Grab a scythe
2. Micro prot spirit on yourself
3. ??????
4. Profit!

moriz · Dec 09, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

or, bring moebius chain, bring "save yourselves!", bring critical agility and asura scan, and now deal 100 DPS plus AoE plus +100 AL for everyone by mashing down buttons in order, even in hard mode. i don't know about you, but there's no special skills involved here. if people are stupid enough to think sins are weak, then its their fault, not the profession. there's no need for PuGs most of the time; the sin is powerful enough to blast through 99% of PvE with hero and hench, with no thought or effort on the players' part.

toocooltang · Dec 09, 2009, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Sins have always been useful because of crit strikes. Much like the ranger sins are very versitile and can use any melee/ranged weapon better than the class it was designed for. Crit barrage in doa is awesome.

Cuilan · Dec 09, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman002

and once SF is nerfed where does this leave a sin in any of the missions...until perma was found they were in the useless pile (with Rits but now they had a huge buff which seems fine to these balanced lot, they have become popular again) and getting in a group was virtually impossible....

Assassins have great A/W and A/D builds. They're also very welcome in physical/MoP groups. If they don't accept you, then you're probably better off with a more intelligent group.

Fay Vert · Dec 09, 2009, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by coil

lol so you don't play the game but are certain that 1 skill is destroying it and you don't really care whatever the outcome? gg. have fun with your trolling.

I was merely stating that I have no axe to grind and no profit to be gained, regardless of SF being god mode or nerf fodder.

I was arguing about that skill's problem and what is good for the game. Shame you chose the ad hominem route.

UnChosen · Dec 09, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

or, bring moebius chain, bring "save yourselves!", bring critical agility and asura scan, and now deal 100 DPS plus AoE plus +100 AL for everyone by mashing down buttons in order, even in hard mode. i don't know about you, but there's no special skills involved here. if people are stupid enough to think sins are weak, then its their fault, not the profession. there's no need for PuGs most of the time; the sin is powerful enough to blast through 99% of PvE with hero and hench, with no thought or effort on the players' part.

Ya, but in end game areas people prefer their melee to be a tank....so dmg doesn't even come into consideration. Before SF was popular people didn't accept warriors in the end game areas for their damage either. They want warriors to bring Obsidian Flesh, Dolyak, Signet of stamina, endure pain, block stance, other dmg reduction spells, and anti scatter spells. With the best defense shield

Remember This? This is what shadow form replaced.

Which once again highlights the problem of badly designed areas. Ex. DoA Stygian Hunger, 4 horsemen, etc.

MMSDome · Dec 09, 2009, 10:32 PM // 22:32

I am amazed to see a thread this long discussing shadow form being removed.

Once upon a time there was a skill called Ursan Blessing that every shitter that couldn't clear elite areas used. After that was nerfed they resorted to another shitter skill called shadow form.

What will the next shitter skill be? I report you decide!

its bad to sin · Dec 09, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

i think it is great that Sf is being nerfed. half the elite areas in the game use only permas so for any1 who wants to do those areas guess what, if u dont have a perma then u cant do that. games like this arent ment for 1 person to be able to solo elite areas or duo them there made for team work and thats y u are allowed to have multiple people in your party and not just 1 or to.

personally i think they should nerf any skill that allows you to take 0 damage yet you can still deliver damage. 600/smite is differnt bcuz it takes some skill to use, ive seen countless 600s fail just because they cant manage energy or time skills to save there life.

good job anet, glad your taking a step in the right direction to make this game the way it was suposed to be played, where you actully have to work to achieve things

DigitalFear · Dec 09, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

What will the next shitter skill be?

Frenzy Mending.

OT: I honestly don't care about the SF nerf. Deleted my sin because I know pugs won't accept me anymore.
Sins will just be powerful but unwanted as they used to be...Sadly. I also hope 600/smite, OF, VoS and the other stuff will be nerfed.

Bring the oldschool pugs back!

coil · Dec 09, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Shame you chose the ad hominem route.

actually i just inquired as to what got you so riled up (ie SF screwing the game). and then you informed me that you didn't play. but back on topic...

UnChosen · Dec 09, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalFear

Frenzy Mending.

OT: I honestly don't care about the SF nerf. Deleted my sin because I know pugs won't accept me anymore.
Sins will just be powerful but unwanted as they used to be...Sadly. I also hope 600/smite, OF, VoS and the other stuff will be nerfed.

Bring the oldschool pugs back!

I just hope they'll give us 7 heroes as a consolation. If they'll going to screw the remaining pugging population they might as well go all the way and make the entire game into single player.

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

i think it is great that Sf is being nerfed. half the elite areas in the game use only permas so for any1 who wants to do those areas guess what, if u dont have a perma then u cant do that. games like this arent ment for 1 person to be able to solo elite areas or duo them there made for team work and thats y u are allowed to have multiple people in your party and not just 1 or to.

And if you didn't have a War/Ele/Mo you weren't going anywhere either. Games like this aren't meant to exclude 70% of the character classes from entering into areas, thats poor design mixed with elitist jerk offs.

Quote:

personally i think they should nerf any skill that allows you to take 0 damage yet you can still deliver damage. 600/smite is differnt bcuz it takes some skill to use, ive seen countless 600s fail just because they cant manage energy or time skills to save there life.

So you attribute "skill" to pressing a different button sequence? An A/E's only e-management is Glyph of Lesser Energy, and in most cases thats not enough for extended forays, they need support just like any other class. If you're going to stary claiming that an overpowered farm build is "okay" because of player skill, then the argument cannot be made that its the build that is the problem. 600/Smite is just as easy as SF, and there is a larger room for error in my experience. You mess up with SF even once, or get a lag hit, and its a wipe, whereas 600/Smite has redundancy built in with the heals and prots.

Quote:

good job anet, glad your taking a step in the right direction to make this game the way it was suposed to be played, where you actully have to work to achieve things

Having to work for fun? Sounds stupid to me. I thought MMOs with ten different base classes would be more about letting people play the way they want, especially considering its an instanced world where a player's actions and skill cannot affect the game at large. There's no waiting line for a boss to respawn, so a builds speed or lack thereof is irrelevant.

But I guess the whiny wammos that got supplanted by SF tanks will throw tantrums until they get their way. Silly children.

necronninenine · Dec 10, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

I have a post nerf suggestion:

ANET should create a "skills buff" weekend event and incorporate them into the special event weekend rotation....like an Ursan Weekend, or SF weekend. This would let people get in their fixes without a huge hit to the economy and keep the diehard "nerf everything" people happy. Probably too hard for the programmers but would be pretty cool to break out that Ursan skill again.

its bad to sin · Dec 10, 2009, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

And if you didn't have a War/Ele/Mo you weren't going anywhere either. Games like this aren't meant to exclude 70% of the character classes from entering into areas, thats poor design mixed with elitist jerk offs.

So you attribute "skill" to pressing a different button sequence? An A/E's only e-management is Glyph of Lesser Energy, and in most cases thats not enough for extended forays, they need support just like any other class. If you're going to stary claiming that an overpowered farm build is "okay" because of player skill, then the argument cannot be made that its the build that is the problem. 600/Smite is just as easy as SF, and there is a larger room for error in my experience. You mess up with SF even once, or get a lag hit, and its a wipe, whereas 600/Smite has redundancy built in with the heals and prots.

Having to work for fun? Sounds stupid to me. I thought MMOs with ten different base classes would be more about letting people play the way they want, especially considering its an instanced world where a player's actions and skill cannot affect the game at large. There's no waiting line for a boss to respawn, so a builds speed or lack thereof is irrelevant.

But I guess the whiny wammos that got supplanted by SF tanks will throw tantrums until they get their way. Silly children.

haha you think 600 is just as easy as sf? u press 3 buttons for sf and by the time it recharges u always have full energy. 600 when u get lower on enemys u have low amounts of energy. if u mess up hitting 1 button then u should not be running that build. and guess what if u mess up hitting prot spirit,spell breaker, soa, spirit bond then u will also die very quick if u mess up with one of those.

personaly when u can make enough money to max sweet,party and titles like that in less then 10 hours running perma, and 600 builds and what not then thats stupid. they made the game so you have to work to get max titles. im not sure how many people would say grinding titles for hours are fun, but i can tell u theres much more who dont like it and they want it to show that they really achieve somthing when they get god walking from not buying out 10 titles really quick from 600 or perma.

if i have 50million + gold that i just used builds that take no skill at all to obtain and i could buy out survivor,party,sweet, skill cap, wisdom title and have all those the first day i started a charecter then i would think im playing a very stupid game. now when i get legend vanquish and guardian and I did them myself then i feel like i actully achieved somthing.

FengShuiDove · Dec 10, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

prot spirit,spell breaker, soa, spirit bond

I count 4. Is that really that much more to manage than 3? And SoA and Spell Breaker are group dependent anyway...

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

haha you think 600 is just as easy as sf? u press 3 buttons for sf and by the time it recharges u always have full energy. 600 when u get lower on enemys u have low amounts of energy. if u mess up hitting 1 button then u should not be running that build. and guess what if u mess up hitting prot spirit,spell breaker, soa, spirit bond then u will also die very quick if u mess up with one of those.

Again, both farming builds are resilient, but there is a greater margin for error in a 600/Smite build, due to the bar running heals and prots that can cover mistakes. There's only 8 skills on the bar, so either you're claiming that pushing one extra bond is monumentally more skillful, or you're just full of carp.

Quote:

personaly when u can make enough money to max sweet,party and titles like that in less then 10 hours running perma, and 600 builds and what not then thats stupid. they made the game so you have to work to get max titles. im not sure how many people would say grinding titles for hours are fun, but i can tell u theres much more who dont like it and they want it to show that they really achieve somthing when they get god walking from not buying out 10 titles really quick from 600 or perma.

I'll bet you USD$20 that there is no single permasin player who has achieved those titles in 10 hours or less. So your first claim is absolute bupkiss. Your second point is that you don't like SF because it devalues your e-peen? That's incredibly pathetic.

Quote:

if i have 50million + gold that i just used builds that take no skill at all to obtain and i could buy out survivor,party,sweet, skill cap, wisdom title and have all those the first day i started a charecter then i would think im playing a very stupid game. now when i get legend vanquish and guardian and I did them myself then i feel like i actully achieved somthing.

I dare you to try vanquishing Mount Qinkai as a solo SF Sin, or better yet finish all of the Prophecies missions as the same. Can't be done, so sorry you're wrong again. Your fanciful claims of title accomplishment on "the first day" and "10 hours" are so incredibly retarded I cannot believe you actually pushed "submit reply."

If you use GW to feel like you've accomplished something, then you have MUCH bigger problems than SF pal...

its bad to sin · Dec 10, 2009, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Again, both farming builds are resilient, but there is a greater margin for error in a 600/Smite build, due to the bar running heals and prots that can cover mistakes. There's only 8 skills on the bar, so either you're claiming that pushing one extra bond is monumentally more skillful, or you're just full of carp.

I'll bet you USD$20 that there is no single permasin player who has achieved those titles in 10 hours or less. So your first claim is absolute bupkiss. Your second point is that you don't like SF because it devalues your e-peen? That's incredibly pathetic.

I dare you to try vanquishing Mount Qinkai as a solo SF Sin, or better yet finish all of the Prophecies missions as the same. Can't be done, so sorry you're wrong again. Your fanciful claims of title accomplishment on "the first day" and "10 hours" are so incredibly retarded I cannot believe you actually pushed "submit reply."

If you use GW to feel like you've accomplished something, then you have MUCH bigger problems than SF pal...

haha ok you should really read what i said before u answer them. if you have money it is very simple to achieve all those titles that i listed. second i never said finish vqing or guardian in 10 hours i said those titles that i listed. third a game acomplishment is just that a GAME acomplishment, nowhere did i say o now my life is complete because i got god walking or anything like that so you should really read what i wrote before replying to it

and im gona do some math for you realy quick. lets take 600/smite for example.

a good 600/smite team can do foundary in 30 minutes running players 20k a piece. thats 200k per hour not including drops so say 1 titan gem each run and that would be a total of around 250k per hour, now it takes 5 hours ish to get a sweet,party which ever title. doing uw with perma it just takes 1 luck run and come out with 750e+ giving you many titles. so yes it is very possible to get those max titles in less then 10 hours.

any title that you can buy and it only takes a few hours to get the money for using builds like perma 600/smite and so on is a complete joke.

EDIT: and by the way for permas sake back when salvers runs had just come out you could very easily come out with 500k+ per hour not including drops.

Kaleban · Dec 10, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by its bad to sin

haha ok you should really read what i said befor u answer them. if you have money it is very simple to achieve all those titles that i listed. second i never said finish vqing or guardian in 10 hours i said those titles that i listed. third a game acomplishment is just that a GAME acomplishment, nowhere did i say o now my life is complete because i got god walking or anything like that so you should really read what i wrote befor replying to it

A starting level 1 with no "nest egg" of e-wealth will be absolutely unable to achieve what you claim in 10 hours, period. I'll lay down $100 to anyone who could do such a thing.

You're wrong, deal with it.

Starting with 50 million gold as an benchmark to what makes an effective or overpowered build is stupid, and anyone with half a brain would realize this.